Results Of All Hands Meeting

This last weekend we had our all hands meeting where we discussed the fate and direction of the project going forward. I’m pleased to say that the meeting was well attended not only by team members but the public as well. A few of us even met for the first time as not everyone is able to make the regular meeting due to scheduling conflicts. You’ll find a full transcript of the meeting on our wiki but I’ve included a summary of what was decided for convenience.

We’re going to continue to develop Third Party viewers with a focus on cross supporting Second Life and OpenSim/Aurora. However we’re going to focus on Kokua in the future, the ultimate fate of Imprudence is still undecided though as we may push for a final 1.4 release but nothing that takes up too much of our time. Kokua will use Second Life v3.2 as a base, we feel the LL code for v3.2 has matured greatly beyond v2 and v3 and we’ll of course make our own modifications to it to make it more “purple” in flavor. It is also our intent to finalize the name change from Imprudence to Kokua, Imprudence and Kokua are separate viewers and the project has historically been called the Imprudence project. The intent was to switch from Imprudence to Kokua as the next generation client was released but it has been dragged out for quite a while now and caused confusion, so we’re going to finish the change over to Kokua.

It’s also our intent to give a fresh face to our web presence, to update the look and feel of the blog and forum, and possibly eliminate some section like the rarely used Q&A sub-site. Our hope is that this will make it easier for users to navigate our online infrastructure and find the information or support they need. This may include the addition of a few simple tutorials about how to use the client and how to connect to grids besides Second Life proper.

Windows 32bit, Linux 32bit and Linux 64bit will be the three platforms we focus on primarily. We’ll make an effort to get out a Windows 64bit and Mac client down the line, but right now we need to focus on getting things rolling and these best fit our users demographics. We’re supporting two flavors of Linux because our devs use both Linux 32bit and Linux 64bit, plus it’s a big PITA run the 32bit client on Linux 64bit so we’ll continue to make a Linux 64bit client available. Regarding Windows, at first we’ll only provide a 32bit client (With SSE optimizations) as we have been doing already, the necessity of a 64bit client on Windows is questionable as the client can’t quite make use of all that ram (Yet, but that can change), plus Windows 64bit OSes can easily run 32bit programs. Still we would like to release a Windows 64bit version at some point to try to see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately we still don’t have a Mac developer and thus can not support the platform, we’d like this to change but it is the state of things for now.

There are other matters besides these that were discussed at the meeting, I encourage you to read the meeting transcript on the wiki if your curious.


23 Responses to “Results Of All Hands Meeting”

  1. onefang

    It’s my intention to help put out the final Imprudence 1.4 release, followed by a 1.4 release of my meta-impy fork, then start working on meta-impy 1.5. I have talked things over with McCabe about the important bugs left to tackle.

    I’ll also help put OTR and support for the new Lightshare reset packet into Kokua. Both should probably go into the final Imprudence 1.4 as well.

    For meta-impy 1.5 I intend to support all that new stuff people keep saying you can’t put into a V1 viewer. I like a good “you can’t do that” challenge, even better is “it’s impossible”. B-)

    BTW, if you read the minutes, its running 32 bit viewer on 64 bit Linux that’s a PITA, not compiling.

  2. Tara Li

    YAY! Really glad to see this discussion take place. I can’t wait to see the stuff for Kokua start to roll out.

  3. ZATZAi

    Thanks Onefang, I corrected the blog post.

  4. Ryou Yiyuan

    Nice to hear some news about Kokua and Imprudence.I see some good news about SSE optimization. Not all people can offer some good computer and they use their old to continue their Second Life. Really a good job at Kokua/Imprudence team.

  5. Gaga

    I was thrilled to read the minutes and wish I had known sooner. I would have been there too. For me seeing such positive comments regarding the future direction of Imp/Kokua has filled me with hope of great things to come. The Open Metaverse needs it’s own viewer and many, myself included, have looked to Imprudence for that. Grid manager can, I’m sure, be re-worked to help noobs and veterans alike to find the grids and sims hidden in this growing network we call the Metaverse. Opensim needs this kind of support to help it grow faster. For two years I have been calling for this so I have high hopes once again.

    I wrote a blog post on Grid Search here…

  6. Han Held

    *buys a macintosh*
    *kokua project decides to not support macintosh*
    FML I guess I’m stuck w/ Coolviwer, then.

  7. ChrysFox

    /me sighs, hopes you find some mac support soon, and goes looking for another viewer, knowing that she won’t find one as nifty.

  8. Marcus Llewellyn

    @Han Held: They have not decided to abandon Macs. It is my understanding that they’d love to have Mac releases, but simply lack a Mac developer and build environment at this time.

  9. Han Held

    @Marcus Llewellyn I’ve downloaded Xcode, I’d be more than happy make builds, assuming that ppl don’t mind if I ask noob/dumb questions because I haven’t compiled a viewer before.

    I’d have to limit my tests to osgrid though since I can’t log in to secondlife with 3.x

  10. Iggy

    It’s sad to see you still cannot find a Mac developer. Many educators using Imprudence for OpenSim projects do their work on Macs, and 40% of my school’s students now bring Mac-OS laptops to campus (desktops of all sorts are rapidly going extinct). I’m pleased that we finished a class-wide project in Jokaydia Grid last semester, all on desktop Macs in a lab. We employed Imprudence’s latest release…it went flawlessly.

    I will continue to use Imprudence until the Kokua comes out in a Mac-OS version. I have no other way of exporting and importing content I develop in OpenSims w/o Imprudence, the Hippo Mac-OS viewer being horribly out of date.

    Thank you all for your hard work so far, and good luck with your future ventures!

  11. Reg Halostar

    Oh – I have another wish to add: could you please take a look at the inventory handling patch by Oz Linden? I use the 1.4 Beta and there seems to be an issue with attaching and dropping items.

  12. Allison

    It is disappointing to hear that your Mac support will be waning, this was the third party viewer that really made a difference. But it sounds like it is time to start looking at Firestorm, and hope that you guys find a good Mac developer somewhere down the road.

    In any event, thanks for putting out a great viewer, and I wish you well on your new path.

  13. xia xue

    was all “hurray!” and then spotted the bit about purpleness…
    would it be possible to put a skin selector in it (like numerous others have by now) and retain the original skin in case we don’t want to be bombarded with purple? my entire desktop’s darker colors to reduce eyestrain, and have to say V2’s skin alone was a saving grace for me. negative space does a TON for viewing+interacting.

  14. Lord

    Personally I think you are missing a great opportunity to bypass Linden Lab code once and for all and develop The Viewer for the OS Grid and become the stabilizing,standardizing force that it so desperately needs.
    OS Grid needs a distinct viewer personallity away from the bunch of SL viewer clones.

    Nevertheless, I am happy to see that there will be another viewer that will address OS Grid accessibility.

  15. makomk

    Well, guess I’m definitely forking my own viewer then. Can’t actually run 3.2 or viewers based on it at all because the Mesa GLSL compiler errors out on its shaders.

  16. yrla

    Good news!

    One suggestion for the Kokua version: make the frames around the different windows as small ass possible (if it is possible). They just take up a lot of space…

    Can’t wait to get a trial Kokua version!

  17. yrla

    ouch, to much ss-es… dang…

  18. Crim Mip

    You have a window of opportunity to get back in the game with a relevant viewer. LL’s release of the FUI reset the playing field a bit as far as v2 based viewers go. Development time spent on v1 based viewers is wasted time at this point. The current official and beta LL viewers are extremely stable at this point so either should be a good base on which to build from. The question is whether Kokua will be developed in a timely enough fashion and with enough unique features to actually attract users.

  19. Greybeard

    I’ve begun testing of NickyP’s build of Kokua Mesh Upload 3.0.0
    Results so far are pleasing in the main.
    It is still very slow with low FPS and still needs builtin AO, Minimap Radar, and PLEASE get rid of those generic SL contents like “Starting SecondLife” etc
    As I posted before, there are already more than enough SL centric viewers, what we OpenSim users need is a real OpenSim viewer.

  20. Shaun Emerald (smxy)

    Imprudence was the only current/modern viewer that actually gave a damn about properly supporting OpenSim and now you are putting a Mac version of Kokua on the back burner. It really saddens me that you seem to think your Mac fans aren’t worth equal, concurrent effort. Now I will have to go use some other viewer made by people who could care less about OpenSim. You had the best damn viewer, and a huge fan base, for a while. It’s a shame your Mac users have to go elsewhere now. :(

  21. onefang

    @Shaun Emerald (smxy): There’s a good reason for the current lack of Mac development effort – we don’t currently have any Mac developers. I don’t own a Mac, nor can I afford to buy one, and I think the other developers are in a similar situation.

    It’s not for lack of wanting, but for lack of resources.

  22. Pip Torok

    I’m a die-hard fan of the look ‘n feel of pre-SL 2.nn viewers, so I hang onto Imprudence, Phoenix, even 1.23.5 itself, now on its very last legs….

    So I ask, is there somewhere some team that is committed to maintaining a viewer based on their look ‘n feel but adding all the newer developments?

    And if such a team exists, who and where are they?

  23. Orinoko Aridian

    I realize I am way late on posting this. But I just wanted to comment about “focus.” Since you like company slogan type deals, how about, “Do one thing, do it better than anyone.” When I type “second life linux 64-bit viewer” into google, this is the ONLY viewer that comes up. If you could make a viewer with full 64-bit linux support, I think it would really make a name for this team. There are tons of other teams trying to fully utilize the 32 bit code that is currently available, but if you REALLY want to take a step ahead, I’d say 64-bit linux is where you should be focused. Its the one major base in the SLs OS field that nobody is covering, and as you point out, is more crucial to the user than a windows 64 bit build because win7 has no problem running the viewer as is.