What’s Next..?

Here at Imprudence we’ve been juggling several issues, trying to develop two different clients at the same time (Imprudence and Kokua) for three different platforms in 32bit and 64bit flavors. not to mention supporting not only the Second Life grid but all the various OpenSim grids as best we can. We think we’ve made some pretty awesome viewers but lately we’re also become stagnant as we’ve been weighted down by trying to juggle all these various things. It seems we may have over extended ourselves a bit and to fix that we need to refocus and simplify. Thus in the coming weeks we will be holding an all-hands team meeting for all Imprudence/Kokua team members, be they Dev or Support, where we will discuss what’s working and what isn’t and what we plan to do about it (Details have already been sent to all team members).

But we’d like to hear your input as well, as we make these viewers for you our users after all. Tell us what makes Imprudence special for you, what draws you to this particular Third Party Viewer over others and what you would like to see going forward.  How do you use Imprudence, and how do you use other viewers even the official one? What do you like about them, what don’t you like, and how is that similar or different from Imprudence. Do you use OpenSim, Aurora or any other alternative grids, even your own local grid? Is there anything you think that Third Party Viewers are missing that would make them easier or more productive for people? What about the site itself, this blog, the forum, the wiki and etc, how can we improve it?

While we can’t make any promises about addressing every issue, we will try to discuss any points made here in the comments.

58 Responses to “What’s Next..?”


  1. Marcus Llewellyn

    I’m really hoping to be able to make the meeting. But if I don’t, I thought I’d make my wishes clear here.

    Stop working on Imprudence. Focus on Kokua instead. Pull a clean copy of LL’s 3.2.* code, and do what you’ve always done best… make it better for users. A few suggested goals:

    * Make some of the menus and preference screens more logical, sane, and comprehensive. This is what started Imprudence in the first place. It was a good idea then, and it’s a good idea now.

    * Add support for OpenSim CAPs and features. Imprudence has had a huge OpenSim fanbase, and we’re starving for a TPV that takes our needs seriously, and not just as an afterthought. Unfortunately, Imprudence is showing it’s age, and people really need an alternative. I’d love for it to be Kokua.

    * Improve the radar. The latest LL viewers have a radar, but it lacks things like distance.

    * Put in a client-side AO. Hopefully it wouldn’t be difficult to borrow one from somewhere like Firestorm.

    * Add Qarl’s aligment tool, just cuz.

    * Temporary textures. Quite a few builders have some to rely on this feature on grids that charge for uploads.

    I’m certain there’s more. But more important than any viewer feature is the fact that the Imprudence/Kokua team has been unsurpassed when it comes to working with it’s community in a transparent and supportive way. That was my most beloved feature, and it’s what I miss most. It is my firm belief that a focus on Kokua will help you to once again engage users in a more timely and beneficial manner.

    Reply to blog posts. Even if it’s just a simple, “I hear ya!” Use your public forums for development discussions whenever reasonable, and not just your mailing lists. And the 3rd Rock Grid people are gonna hate me for saying this, but consider having your in-world meetings on OSGrid instead. 3RG has some awesome people, and they do aim for stability, but OSGrid is pretty much acknowledged as the hub for OpenSim and the Hypergrid, where all roads meet. If you’d like to increase user participation at in-world meetings, OSGrid is the best choice.

  2. Royer Pessoa

    Linux 64bits. Should I say more?
    Imprudence is faster then LL’s in any platform.
    I just hope for Mesh right now.

  3. Paolo

    I’m an user of imprudence because there is the 64bit client (for my 64bit linux box) and it works like a charm!

    Missing features? physics and mesh. But I’ll wait kokua for them…

    Thanks for your work! and go on! :)

  4. Cully

    I love Imprudence on my MacBook. Clean and fast. I’m using an older version of Imprudence due to upgrading my OS to Lion. Still worth using because it’s the fastest SL client on my MacBook.

    and many many thanks for all your work. bless you all!

  5. M

    *better to focus on kokua at this point.
    *linux 64 bit works great in every way.. sound, music, speed and all that goes with it! :-)
    *radar needs improvement from the v3 viewer
    *improvements in bakefail at login from the v3 viewer and making it more reliable in every way like imprudence is.
    *and of course all the features from imprudence like command line and so on should carry forward to kokua too.
    *thank you for creating this viewer with a lot of devotion and love. many blessings to the team!

  6. John "Pathfinder" Lester

    I spend a great deal of time visiting many different grids. And my “Hypergrid Adventurers Club” (http://becunningandfulloftricks.com/hypergrid-adventurers-club/) is a group of folks dedicated to exploring the growing universe of interconnected Opensim grids on the hypergrid.

    The most popular viewer for members of our group (including myself) is definitely Imprudence. It works great for folks living the multi-grid life, both directly logging in to different grids as well as hypergrid jumping between them all.

    I believe a major part of the future success of Opensim *depends* on making it easy for people to explore many different grids and travel between them all as easily as possible. Imprudence is in the lead as a viewer that currently supports that ability. I hope Imprudence continues to grow in new ways to support an interconnected multi-grid universe even better.

  7. Vbinnia

    Like others I use the Linux 64bit version of Imprudence, it has flaws like any viewer, but it does what I want, maybe my needs are simple? Thank you for that!

    I have waited in vain for a decent viewer 2 interface (produced by anyone…!) that at least gives a similar experience to what I have with Imprudence. Going backwards is not the new going forwards. I don’t expect to loose what I have to just get features that half work and constant battling to do things that were easy in Imprudence.

    The only attempt that seems to have come anywhere close is Firestorm, but nothing about it makes me want to rush off and burn my bridges. It seems ironic that it’s taken all this time to end up with something that is closer to an old viewer experience, and looks like a Gnome desktop environment to boot; now that is irony LOL. With the standard SL viewer2, iIt was only with the last release that I managed to get one that didn’t crash on start up with Linux. I managed to last for about 15 minutes before giving up in frustration at performance that was iffy to say the least; and whatever lunatic decided it was good idea to reverse the avatar steering, needs a good poking with a sharp stick. I once commented that whoever came up with concept for viewer2 must have designed baked bean cans previously: my opinion has not changed.

    I am no Luddite and I know that I will have to change at some point, but please! with any new viewer, get the foundations right. A stable viewer first, existing features that work properly, (as much as you can), then go for the fancy stuff.

    For me a stable, uncluttered viewer with everything hideable, would be an ideal. If I am building I don’t want to see any other non essential tools or menus, if I am chatting I don’t want anything else cluttering up the view. If I am just looking at a scene, I want that, just to look, not have anything obscured by an avalanche of options and menus or LARGE anything that thrusts itself in front of me. It’s much less intimidating like that anyway when starting with a new viewer. I don’t have to look a buttons and options I will never use anyway, it would be nice if they could be disabled individually by choice.

    Unlike a previous comment, I don’t give a tinkers cuss where you hold meetings, and I inhabit the existing place most of the time with very infrequent visits to SL. Lets face it, it’s a virtual location anyway so what’s the fuss? Sounds like a my grid is bigger than yours argument. Follow that line and they should be held in SL? My Government sits in London; would it make any difference if it conducted it’s business in my city: I doubt it :) I do care however that you take Opensim into account with any viewers though, along with Linux and Mac. Cos I ain’t changing to Windows just to use a viewer.

    If nothing else, thank you for all the hard work so far, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with. You would have to work hard to be as bad as standard SL viewer LOL

  8. LaeMing

    64-bit Linux support very good. Getting leggacy IA32 code working on a 64 bit install can be a pain, though I managed to get it going recently for the official SL viewer.

    Mesh support.

    Aurora sim. With all its extra non-SL-legacy niceties. That is in fact my main interest in this version of the OpenSim platform – the close integration between Imprudence/Kokura and Aurora allowing things to more easily move beyond the ‘SL legacy compatable’ stage and all the early-on poor design decisions (even by LL’s own opinion) inherent in it. The platform is able to lead where necessary, not just follow LL.

  9. Nalates Urriah

    I would prefer to see you move on to Kokua. Imprudence has been my viewer of choice in OSGrid until mesh. A Kokua with mesh upload and the building tools from Imprudence would make me happy.

    ################
    We have numerous TPV’s for SL. I would love to see your first focus be OpenSim grids.
    ################

  10. Anastasia Trefusis

    Mesh, multiple attachments and layers.

    A stable viewer 3 viewer where you can have temp uploads, pose preview, and take high res snapshots without having a nasty grid on them.

  11. Tali

    Pitching in pretty much to say “I agree” to Marcus Llewellyn’s post. Oh, and Area Search for objects.

    I.e. keep up with LL’s latest and greatest, and add the nice touches and tools which just makes it more convenient, while preserving the reputation for diligence and not messing with the users which Imprudence was known for.

  12. Fim Fischer

    Hi guys,

    since you just asked…
    I would like to see http://www.openscad.org/ implemented.
    Creating prezise objects/parts, using OpenSim/Imprudence – will provide new use cases and therefore new user groups will join the SL/OpenSim/Viewer community.

    “Can i haz creating .scad objects in-world plz^^”

    Fim

  13. Stryker Jenkins

    The imprudence viewer has a very nice collection of building tools, useful menu options, and a greater flexibility when it comes to User Interface changes for people with disabilities.
    I hope these tools (and some new once) can find a place in the Kokua Viewer a.s.a.p.
    That would mean the Dev’s would need to fully refocus on Kokua rather then Imp if you ask me. I know V3 viewer are less stable then V1 type viewer. But there in lays the challenge. “Make a more stable viewer then the (official) one form Linden Lab, with all the bells and whistles that people have become to expect when using Imprudence” (but do it quickly or lose the following you have now).

  14. Crim Mip

    I’ll jump in with my suggestion to get Kokua up and running and based on 3.2 code (or newer) and put Imprudence in ‘end of life’ mode. Mesh is here. More creators are using it. Fewer and fewer users are going to put up with not being able to see that content. Sure, I assume with enough time and work, you could merge Henri’s mesh code into Imprudence (any licensing issue aside.) But that would take a lot of work and more importantly time. You’d still end up with a viewer with a limited lifespan.

    Just as importantly, While there are at least three still actively supported V1 bases TPV viewers with mesh capability, there is only one v3 based one. I don’t count Kirstens anymore because it’s no longer developed or supported. There really ought to be at least a couple good alternatives to LL’s V3.

    As for features, a unified chat/IM floater is almost mandatory. The one in Firestorm works great. If LL’s had that, I’d probably be using theirs a lot of the time. keep unneeded floaters off the screen and combine ones that it makes sense to combine.

    Because having a totally customizable interface is awesome, but makes support from you or the community difficult, add a toggle button that forces everything to a standard setup and then returns it to the previous settings when clicked again. That way somebody could get help from somebody else with all buttons in the same place.

    Focus on frame rate, stability, and fixing memory leak issues over fancy features. I like Firestorm, but it can slow down and glitches and crashes at times. It’s memory use invariably rises over time.

    Finally, we’re tired of hearing the excuse that licensing is stopping some basic function that every other viewer has from being implemented. I’m not using a viewer that doesn’t have full media functions or is missing some other expected feature such as mesh upload. All basic viewer functions have got to work and without having to go hunt down external software.

  15. Monica Balut

    There’s a version of Imprudence that’s been in beta for months. I suggest you wrap that up and release it as the final version. Then quickly move on to Kokua.

    I don’t use Imprudence in SecondLife. I have long since moved on to v3 viewers and now use several, Firestorm being the one I most use. But I’ve found that most of them don’t work well with other grids so I find myself going back to Imprudence when I’m on other grids.

    If you could make Kakua work well with other grids as well as SecondLife, I’d move to that.

  16. WhiteStar

    I wonder if anyone noticed that this is not appearing as the first blog on the from page http://blog.kokuaviewer.org I keep seeing “Happy Festivus” up top.

    Glad to see the information here.
    WS

  17. AvinashRugani

    Throwing another hat in the ring for 64-bit Linux.

  18. Greybeard

    Being a “dyed in the wool” Impy user and a dedicated OpenSim (OSGrid) resident, I would lament the loss of my dear old Impy, but, that said, a shiny new Kokua with mesh and a UI that is still similar to Impy would be a good step forward.

    I have learned to dislike that damned sidebar thing in v2\v3 SL viewers, just my old Luddite ways,lol.

    I also agree with the sentiments regarding focus on OpenSim, there are already more than enough TPV’s dedicated to SL grid.

  19. Lord

    You know what ? There will soon be a dozen SLV 3.2 based TPV’s and 2 or 3 TPV’s with V2/V3 sitting under a V1 user interface.

    If it was me, I would want to break the mold, and cut the tether to SL Viewer technology. I would want to use something that was open source and modular, and something that didn’t depend on SL and LL’s whimsy. I would focus on Open Sim but possibly with an SL compliancy.

    To give an idea of what I am really leaning toward, in my thinking, is to take RealXtend’s Naali/Tundra Viewer and combine it with the Dzonatas Sol/MonoVida Studio/Communicator Viewer (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Communicator) idea/work in progress, along with SLV 3.2′s User Interface Flexibility….having a modular open-source viewer with the ability to open various parts of the viewer as separate desktop floatable elements… and movable buttons.

    To me, this would leapfrog LL’s SLV 3.2 in modernness and usability and help standardize OpenSim.

  20. Walter Balazic

    I agree with Greybeard. An entire group of us LOVE Imp. If there was a Kokua with a UI that looked like Impy we’d love it. The whole problem with v2/v3 for all of us is the interface. We love the old style v1 interface. And I second Greybeard on the focus on OpenSim as well…

  21. Kaluura Boa

    I don’t have much else to say than “Me too!”. Everything is said hereabove. Release the very last version of Imprudence and focus on Kokua. Give to V3/FUI that Impy touch that it seriously lacks, especially in the building department. The closer you’ll get from Imprudence’s current V1-style UI, the better! (Please, please, give us back the Communicate window!) I’ve been testing every V2/V3 viewers since the day LL released their black monster. I really tried but I always find myself running back to Imprudence any time I want to do anything serious, even if Imprudence isn’t the fastest viewer on my system any more and hasn’t meshes. (I’m an SLer only on Linux 32-bit.)

  22. Arkem

    Imprudence is the only 64 bits native viewer for linux. I don’t use it anymore, though. I am waiting for Kokua

  23. Han Held

    Now that phoenix, coolviewer and singularity all support mesh, Imprudence has become irrelevant -even to people who use opensim.

    I’ve stopped using Imprudence and instead I either use Firestorm, Phoenix or coolviewer, in roughly that order.

    I would suggest scrapping Imprudence and bring out a 3.2 (or higher) based Kokua with the following features:

    wishlist:

    Parcel Windlight <<seriously, that feature will keep me tied to the phoenix family until another viewer adopts it. I **DREAM** of a cross-platform (SL+Opensim) viewer with parcel windlight becoming accepted by the mainstream.

    Imprudence/Phoenix style Grid manager; this is vital for those of us who host our own individual standalone/grids. Make it easy to add our own addresses to it.

    Make the 3.2 base as opensim friendly as possible.

    Full sim radar, maybe based on phoenix?

    Bonus points if you can make the UI as close to Impy as possible.

    That's my wishlist, I'll post again if I think of anything else.

    Keep up the great work! :D

  24. R.A. Peters

    Hi I rarely comment on such things but I am feeling a sense of urgency right now haha. At present I need a viewer that supports the newer multimedia and mesh and I am a bit worried about this question even being asked. I had been under the understanding that kokua was coming “soon” tm with mesh and the new generation multimedia stuff. I have been using imprudence since like forever but am in a bit of a bind. Everything is moving forward and my viewer is being overtaken. Now I see a question asking about features when it seems almost mandatory to add the features that are “all the rage” in opensim mesh/multimedia capabilities if the newer generation viewer. I have already had to convert to using firestorm on a stand alone sim that I hypergrid to places with and very soon it looks like I have to abandon imprudence for something else on the grid that i use because this viewer has not kept up. Its a shame really but I am almost at the point of having to move on from this viewer. I have used this viewer for well 2 years now I think but unless this viewer updates or kokua is released in the next couple of months suddnely with all those features time to move on I guess.

  25. ZATZAi

    Hey Whitestar, I looked into that and it seems to be working fine for me with “What’s Next” up top, checked a couple different browsers. Maybe it’s a caching issue? If you, or anyone else, is still having the issue let me know.

  26. julius

    For me, only used on opensim
    I like :
    - remember login/pass on several grids,
    - linux 64 performance
    - windlight/lightshare support
    - tool added to align prims when creating
    I wish :
    - mesh
    - v2/3 interface can be tuned…
    - more hardware acceleration (x4/x6 cpus, graphic card sometimes useless)

    Thx for work!! and thx for opening the discusion with users :)
    good luck!

  27. WhiteStar

    @ ZATZai. for some reason today it appears correctly as the first page on the blog. Might be an MSIE issue but… would not bet on that. ALL GOOD in any case. :)

    Just to add a little I started a Thread in the forums under Kokua Idea Nursery: “Carry Forward Features/Functions from Imp” so people can have a place to post what they would like to move forward from Imp.

    While I have played on & off with V2 & V3 viewers from LL and a couple of TPV’s, I have to admit that I was far from impressed with any offerings based on the new code until recently. I have to admit that the latest LL V3-Dev viewer “Second Life 3.2.8 (247796) Jan 17 2012 09:17:05″ is working amazingly well. The rendering performance in SL & OpenSim is as good as any optimized viewer out there (regardless of code base) and how they have managed to make it customizable & configurable should certainly help TPV’s tweak it out nicely. (Special Note that I use NVidia only, so I don’t know if there are still ATI Video card issues)

    I know there will always be Luddites and those that resist change, but seriously, the latest V3 is pretty darned decent and it does not take a long time to adjust to it.

    Kokua should be based on this & future LL codebase as it finally appears that they got it sorted out & working quite nicely. I’m using it in SL & OpenSim without any burps at all and am impressed with the rezzing speed of everything.

    Along with most every other voice, SL has enough TPV’s to make your head spin, we in OpenSim / Aurora-Sim land need & want a real viewer that will follow in Imprudence’s Path to being an Optimized Viewer for us to use with all our little “goodies”.

  28. Spuds

    I’ve tried most every viewer out there and always come back to Imprudence which I use for 3 grids.
    My wish list (with the thought of Kokua winning out)
    * Light. V.3 is dark with all the grey backgrounds and fonts which causes eye strain.
    *Multiple attachments
    *Radar showing legacy/user names instead of display names
    *Buttons that make sense. The icons LL chose make no sense. Words are better than icons. I don’t log in to play Pictionary.
    *Shadows that “work”. Currently Imprudence viewer snapshots do not show shadows.
    *Environmental Editor that is user friendly. For V.3 the E.E. is clunky and confusing.
    *Vertical IM tabs
    *UI size increase doesn’t increase the size of the Edit Menu (as does V.3)This creates an Edit menu too large to fit on the screen.
    *Keep floating profiles instead of web based.
    *Design group profiles to be logical and a good use of space (V.3 is horrible).
    *Volume control that is easily accessible, including mute. For example, when some newb walks around with his radio on minus a headset, one should be able to quickly mute or turn him down, not fumble through various menus.
    *Less clunky. V.3 has semi transparent windows where they shouldn’t be, non trans where they would be useful, get rid of the big chair and L$ over the curser, etc.
    *Enable Hover Tips. They are in V.3 but are disabled. Imprudence hover tips are fantastic. My biggest Imprudence complaint is disappearing prims.
    Yes, I’d like to keep V.1 interface, but moving forward, some things are better left as is.

  29. Dianna Loxely

    Keep dreaming of a “clean 3.2 base code” to build Kokua from.
    Something like this doesn’t exist, neither a clean V2 code base nor a clean V1 code base. Every bug was not fixed, no they become “workarounds” and so the buggy code gets
    buggier and buggier and huge and slow and and and …

    I do not say Imprudence is bugfree, but we can handle them.
    1st, go back to the roots and stop dreaming about the imaginary Kokua. The dream has ended, we already have waited 2 years for something like a Kokua. (and we still wait for the promised alpha source code)
    But did we have missed something without this Cocoa oups Kokua? I guess not, and so we won’t miss it in the future too.

    I run the “Imprudence 1.4.0 Experimental 2010.10.17″ (the one without source code) since 15 months. Just lean back and think about this line: FIVETEEN MONTHS – no other vierwer ever had such a lifetime!

    Yes it has bugs, but the newer builds have some more. Bugs like the old cache bug – freezes the viewer for 3 minutes on reorganisation the cache and in the meantime we get disconnected from SL because the missed ping answers. But my workaround for this is simply, just using a 1GB RAMdisk, speeds this up down to 3 seconds.
    On the other side, this viewer is robust, fast and hard to crash (like a tank from WW1 in a sci-fi war but not that slow)

    Back to topic:
    There is not a lot to implement into an oldschool viewer like this (beside the bug fixes).
    - show other residents attachments on “add” points (no we dont need “add” for ourself, “add”s are a buggy solution)
    - implement the newer lsl functions (textbox, mediaprim)
    - fix the “show residents with Ruth hair” on users using V3 (not an imprudence bug, every V1 based viewer have this bug)
    - add Henris V1 mesh code. Best would be in an external library like KDU, have it, use it, otherwise let the mesh be mesh and make jokes about ppl wearing spheres and boxes

  30. Allen Kerensky

    Running 1.4.0b2 – 32bit on Linux AMD64 – using 32 bit to prevent library loading issues while running 32-bit Cool Viewer connected concurrently to SecondLife for cross-development.

    I’d like to see:
    * As the creator of the Myriad Lite RPG/combat HUD and related bits for OSgrid/OpenSim, I’d like to see combat/RPG systems that region owners can customize, supported by an OpenSim module that talks with a TPV so that the Profile page could also show a region-specific roleplay character. In the sense of a client side AO – client side roleplay/combat support beyond the Linden Lab Combat System (LLCS) which is currently running from scripted HUD attachment.

    * LSLeditor and an updated LSLint integrated. Bonus for version control of some sort.

    * a full export/import that also gets your scripts and prim content.

    * IRC and/or XMPP merged into communicate

    * Inventory Dupe Detector by UUID – just put a highlight bar behind the name or some other visual indicator in the list that this is a dupe – bonus for a dupes tab that only shows dupes so you can delete the dupes down to 1 which causes it not to show.

    * In combination with OpenSim group module – return of the Group Proposal and Voting

    * Line numbers next to the text pane for notecards too
    * Column and line number indicator for notecard editing

    * Media On A Prim Support
    * Multi-layer clothes
    * Mesh Viewing and Upload

    * Clearer/working LightShare and ParcelWL control (clear current region lightshare, see current region settings, edit settings, etc)

    * A Chat Bar enhancement to send IMs to contacts by name without requiring typing into a second input box – to allow read/respond to IMs without leaving mouselook … /name message or ‘name message – best match by firstname from friendlist if possible

    * Edit window enhancements to show SitTarget, SetText, TextureAnim, and Particle settings on a prim and allow changing or clearing them without writing a quick script.

    * V3 viewer base with integration to OS native window manager to allow multiscript window positioning outside of the 3D display frame. Script editor and communicate window on monitor two with 3D world on monitor one, for example.

    * UI editor to deal with the skinnable XML UI pieces and images much easier.

    * Integrated libpurple support to allow instant message contacts to appear as Communicate tabs – bonus for microblog purple and facebook libpurple plugin support

    * Direct SL/OpenSim email support using custom notecard UI (for To, From, Subject and Body using traded/given inventory keys for the notecards itself, a dedicated inventory forlder, and the scripted object email interface.

    * Integrate inworld browser with Firefox NoScript and Ghostery plugins as well as complete socks5 proxy support to redirect all URL requests through proxy with zero DNS or request “leakage”

    I am sure I can think of more if anyone is interested, but that’s a starting list of stuff I’d love to see a TPV support.

  31. onefang

    That’s a bucket load of work. lol

    libpurple gets you IRC and XMPP support. It’s on my TODO for my Imprudence fork. It solves the problem as stated by the Impy developers that “we add one IM system, people will want them all” quite nicely.

    I have proof of concept mesh viewing, but no LL style mesh upload. It’s not needed the way I do it, but plan to support that when I make it real. Part way through turning it into real mesh code.

    I have a patch for LightShare on my fork, just waiting for Impy to put my last lot of patches in first.

    I’m not sure that a viewer can directly edit those prim properties, except by creating a temporary script behind your back. Still, that’s doable, but wont be quick. If there’s lots of things in the prims contents, likely to be as slow as usual.

    Some of that other stuff is also on my TODO, but perhaps not in the way you might expect. B-)

    On the other hand, I have no intention of doing V2 or V3. Too much work constantly chasing LL’s taillights, I’d rather spend my efforts innovating.

    We wont know what the Impy team will do until after they decide.

  32. ZZ Bottom

    Imprudence works flawless on Os grid and Hypergrid!
    Same with Phoenix non mesh (i refuse to use mesh viewers due to the impossibility of forcing via hardware the native viewers AA and AF on them!).
    Many are still used to V1 interface, and if i can agree that v3 Ui frees more of the screen and some tpv’s based on it are really easy to use (Exodos, Niran’s, Sion, Catnip, Dolphin, Rlv), V1 viewers, due to several reasons, are still the most used, be on Os grid or on Sl!
    Look at Cool viewer development to see why V1 will still have a lot to offer!

  33. Riff Gaffer

    I have very simple needs: I want a viewer that lets me view everything in SL, so that includes Mesh

  34. Han Held

    >>”That’s my wishlist, I’ll post again if I think of anything else.”

    I thought of two other, MAJOR features that are needed:

    1)Retain the ability to export and import

    2)adjust the size limits in secondlife to reflect the fact that we have 64m prims now.

  35. matangdilis

    What works for me:

    Linux 64 bit.
    Opensim offline building and OSgrid

    My wishlist:

    multiple cameras and view. Similar to blender editor. That way I can shoot a presentation with one camera pointed at my avatar and presenter and another at the audience.

    picture in picture capability.

    mesh support. and download of whole mesh avatars as obj or dae (something like in phoenix) so I can edit it in blender and reupload as mesh sculpture that is consistent with the look of the sim.

  36. matangdilis

    I almost forgot. I like v1 UI but I hope the UI gets rid of all the references to SL when it is logged in an OpenSim grid.

  37. Veri

    I have to agree with the majority here… deprecate Imprudence and shift full-time to developing Kokua.

    We all know that the time will eventually come when everyone will have to switch to a V2/3/future-based viewer, and though features like mesh can and have been backported, the fact that that takes such a long time means that, like it or not, V1 TPVs hold back adoption of new features as content creators (rightfully) are afraid of so many people not being able to use their content.

    And with the latest development OpenGL fixes, V3 even performs objectively better than V1.

  38. stuff

    I only visit Second Life
    I only use a Mac BookPro
    I am a content creator

    I started using Imprudence because its performance was faster and for its build tools.
    I stopped using Imprudence because i wanted alpha layers and multi attachements.

    I started using Kokua for alpha layers and multi attachements.
    I stopped using Kokua because performance was horridly slow.

    From an SL point of view:

    What will set Kokua apart from the other TPV’s? Is it going for a niche of its own? Is it the content creators’ viewer? The photographer/machinema viewer? The combat viewer? Or the viewer that simply does everything that Firestorm does but faster?

    Either way, I agree team Kokua needs to focus on one thing. Which is probably dropping muti platform os and multi grids. You can always expand out later.

    As an end user I will never forget Imprudence for the speed it gave me and Quarl’s super duper, most awesome tool of alignment. I will continue to monitor what goes with you guys (as I have been doing hence my notice of this blog update), and will jumping back on board the minute you offer a mac SL viewer that gives me a higher FPS than I can get elsewhere. Until then, I suspect that a mac based sl viewer is off the table.

    I am rooting for your success, no matter what you decide to do!!!

  39. Aki

    I hope 64bit viewer(based V3) for Linux.
    32bit viewer cannot be supporting the in-world movie enough in SecondLife, on 64bit Linux.
    However, most of other viewers is 32bit viewer,
    Also Linden’s official viewer.
    On Linux, OMV viewer is 64bit viewer,but it seems that development was interrupted.
    I am waiting eagerly for Kokua for 64bit Linux.

  40. Samantha Ninetails

    You guys should bring back the Experimental builds. So everyone see’s what is going on and can help you test stuff out.

  41. Susy Glas

    Imprudence is my favorite.
    Currently the biggest issue we encounter in the viewers is the compatibility of graphics cards, textures rezz the whole or part not rezz. The sound of the environment has also been a problem. Not fun sail in silence. Now the V3 has a serious problem that is , it consumes a lot of FPS and if the FPS are around the 20 FPS problems really begin. As I like to sail can not use the latest viewers because I can only use it for a few minutes without crash. I think updating the graphics is essential, I use two computers in the SL, the oldest with a 520 Mb graphics card works well with the textures, the same textures with a newer computer with 1GB DDR3 memory on the graphics works quite poorly despite the Nvidia have a fairly wide range of drivers.

  42. Tory Republic

    Another vote for 64bit linux!

  43. Tazy

    Besides the Fact that imprudence is the only viewer that will run on Notebooks with Nvidia Optimus GPU on linux x64 with
    Bumblebee/Ironhide. and any 32bit viewer wont due that.
    Also that i personally have more trust into the dev’s not to do any harmfull stuff like it happend to Emerald. lol

  44. Ayasha C

    I have tried many other viewers and keep coming back to Imp for the speed and lack of crashing every few moments. V3 hogs the resources and the look is off. I would just like to see something with the Imp layout, including the radar below the mini map, keep the building ease, and add mesh and multi point attachments. I like the tattoo layer but would like to see separate parts, one for head, separate one for upper body, and third for lower body.
    Other than that I love the Imp viewer, so keep a lot of its good points if you move to Kokua, or give up on the Kokua build and just update Imp.

  45. TaraLi Jie

    I think the team seriously needs to hit Kokua *hard*. The v3 codebase seems to have cleared a number of the painful parts of the v2 UI, so the pain of transition won’t be quite as bad.

    There’s just not enough DevTime available to continue on with Imprudence itself *and* get Kokua working.

  46. Timo Gufler

    My wishlist:

    * 64-bit Kokua with good Linux-integration
    * building-related (build math, texture alignment)
    * automatically rez using the land group
    * photography-related features (easy snapshots, sky settings)

    Imprudence was my favorite viewer earlier, but V2/3 is the way to go…

  47. Chaniyth

    First and foremost, please don’t be asses like at Linden Labs and not listen to your end users, do the respectible thing and listen to what your end users want and need, and in a timely fashion [Experimental Builds]!

    Times have changed for TPV viewers significantly. Mesh Support is rapidly engrossing the SL grid and as such, Mesh support is sorely needed ASAP for Imprudence and Kokua. If your team is going to eventually abandon Imprudence at least include Mesh support in it’s next release [which is hopefully SOON!].

    My vote goes towards 64-bit Linux for sure as that is the only OS I use [i'm completely Microsoft Windows free].

    64-bit is no longer the future, 64-bit is in the NOW for the commercial [home user] computing world. As for SL, Mesh support is in the NOW spectrum as well.

    My top wishlist with Mesh Support being my #1:

    * Full Mesh Support
    * Must retain native Linux 64-bit support
    * Must retain audio/video 64-bit support (GStreamer)
    * Hopefully retain the temp texture upload preview feature
    * Bring back experimental builds
    * Physics Support
    * Lighting & Shadowing Support at decent speeds (optimized).
    * Media On A Prim Support
    * Multi-layer clothing
    * Multi-Attachments

  48. Ryou Yiyuan

    I really hope I will be able to use for longtime Imprudence because it’s only viewer allow my old computer to log on in SL. All that due at the SSE2 and my CPU doesn’t support it. Until I will change computer, I still using Imprudence.
    What about this ? Does the Imprudence/Kokua team will develop only a SSE2 in future ?

  49. Reg Halostar

    Thank you wholeheartedly for your incredible work. Right now Imprudence is the only viewer capable of running voice _and_ stream simultaneously on my machine. SLV3 and Firestorm worked for a short period and then failed.

    As such I’d vote for (in decending order of importance for me):
    - 64-Bit Linux support
    - Voice and media working
    - Media on a prim (need that for my RL-profession)
    - Favorites, addressline and browser-like navigation as in V2/3-viewers would be really cool
    - Multi-attachment (being a furry is a pain otherwise)
    - Mesh will be needed in foreseeable future

    And the most important of all my wishes:
    - Have fun doing your hard work and coding this viewer

  50. Andros Baphomet

    If you don’t do anything else, keep the 64 bit builds, as NO other TPV has this, and it is the prime reason I use Imprudence.

    If you’re going to dump Imprudence, I would ask that there be a final release beforehand, and that any major bugs encountered between that point and Kokua’s release be fixed. It’s a long while before Kokua is ready to use even as a beta, and 64 bit Linux users need something stable in the meantime.

    Maintaining the flexibility of the UI from version 1 is paramount to me, and I would like to see that in Kokua. The pie menu would be one example of this.

    Make sure media and sound works on 64 bit Kokua. Every 32 bit version 2 viewer I have tried does not give me any ambient sound.

    Mesh support is, sadly, becoming necessary as everyone is pushing it hard.

    Multi-attachments and outfit support are a must.

    Lighting and shadows and all the other Kristin’s Viewer stuff is nice, but not a dealbreaker.

    If the location bar’s going to look like a browser, make it more flexible and more browser-like. That means taking cues from browser UI design there (direct typing of locations or SLURLS, maybe incorporate the chat command feature here, maybe right-click the back button to get your history, etc.).

    OTR encryption of IMs is a nice feature I’ve missed since Emerald. Not a huge priority, though.

    These are just a few of my thoughts. If more come to me, I’ll let you know. :-)

  51. Evie

    I think drop the Imprudence viewers completely and concentrate on Kokua. The Kokua viewer was announced on November 1st, 2010, that’s a longgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg time to wait for a viewer!

    I get really impatient lol I know of many people that have problems with the current viewers, specifically Firestorm, Exodus and the LL viewers, so it would help them a lot if Kokua is released soon.

  52. Evie

    oh and also, please include the silver starlight skin in the Kokua viewer, that’ll make me a very happy bunny.

  53. Graham Mills

    Lots of great ideas here. I would vote for: Kokua (MOAP, mesh), FUI, grid manager, support for chatted hypergrid addresses (seems broken in all v3 viewers), some way to be able to hide/disable RLV support (not good for corporate users), parcel windlight settings, IAR import.

  54. Graham Mills

    … and support for the Linden Realms add-ons like automated HUD attachment.

  55. Gaga

    For me it is vital that the Imp/Kokua team maintains and even increases their support for the Opensim and Aurora-based grids. The open Metaverse is expanding steadily and hypergrid travel on the increase so we need a viewer that gives maximum support. Second Life is well catered for with something like 10 TPVs and the V3 official viewer but the open Metaverse is reliant on a just few usable viewers including Imprudence which is probably the most widely used for Opensim. Personally, I think we have to move on now and Kokua is the way to go if, and ONLY if, it puts a renewed focus on Opensim apart from support for many of the things expected of a V3-based viewer such as Mesh, Mesh upload, Moap, multi attachments etc. The kind of support that the viewer can give the open Metaverse should, MUST, include a Grid Search function to replace grid manager where grid owners can add their own grid address, info and logo/image. Currently, all the grid owners have to explain to noobs how to add an address and it is probably a serious stumbling block to recruitment.

    What I would like to see is an improved grid manager with a search function and method for grid owners to add their own grids and standalone sims so new users don’t have to add grid addresses themselves which a lot wont have a clue about but rather they can simply enter some key words to find grids of their choice (you need a registered name to login but why not allow logins to hg-enabled grids by adding the hg info to the user name the client has entered? That is, for my name, Gaga@hg.osgrid:80 for example. The grid manager could do this and I would log into OSgrid at a Plaza without having my name actually registered there.). It needs a back-end server to handle the database but I think this could be the single most helpful feature that would benefit Opensim users and grid owners as a whole. By this method the grid list would always be up to date and noobs would never need to enter an address. I believe grid owners would welcome this feature and promote the viewer since they would be able to direct their new clients to it knowing their grid is already featured and set up to go. No more need for grid owners to get someone to tweak the grid list and release a clone that does nothing for the Metaverse as a whole but is doing exactly what I am saying – only just for their own clients.

    Apart from a totally fresh approach to the grid manager I have to say I am unsure if having external profiles is a good thing or not given the controversy surrounding pseudonyms where Google Plus and Facebook are attempting to force users to reveal real names and Identity in order for there social networking forum operators to exploit the information. By it’s very nature virtual worlds will probably always support pseudonyms so if people must use social networks then perhaps external profiles and its features, the Wall, etc could actually be a good thing that might well benefit both Second Life and the free Metaverse.

  56. Nancy

    Imprudence is fantastic and I love it above all others.

    Ok It hasn’t got TP history – I can do without that!

    OK – I can’t see the TV images when a TV in-world shows you-tube – I can live without that too!

    I can’t see Mesh items as they become popular – OK I am sure the team is working on that…

    But what I love is knowing who is around me and as far as I know, no one but no one integrates the mini-map and the radar together
    I just LOVE this feature.

  57. StarMaker Boa

    i was looking at your blog here and i am confused i like imprudence cause tried the others and none satisfy me like you do now please help me what grid should i be on i have no idea
    i am 76 years old and i set it on second life if i just had someone i could ask questions too i would be happy thank you for listening and if anyone would like to put me on and mentor me just a few times is all i need i would love it
    have a good day thank you

  58. Librancien

    Hi, I’m a little late for that but here’s how I see the viewer future :
    - Focus on kokua v3 based.
    - Keep it open source and keep 32b and 64b linux versions.
    - Backport to Kokua all the improvements and style that made Imp b2 the best.

    For the new features that I would like to see in Kokua (in addition to the v3 viewer functions):

    - A way to import outfits from Imp

    - A filter by perm in inventory.

    - An optimized full sim radar.

    - A land manager function that allow to dump to chat/export land passlists and land banlists (I found it only in the estate manager module of metabolt viewer).

    - A group manager function that allow to dump to chat/export the group members list, the group roles with their UUID.

    - I don’t know if it is technically possible but a reliable and secure Name2Key and a GroupName2Key function would be great for the scripters.

    Many thanks for the work made so far with Imprudence, I look forward for the Kokua first experimental release that makes us dream yet.

    Lib